Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Feature requests, and in-depth discussions of features and the way Mellel works

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Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby miles11 » Fri Jan 08, 2016 12:31 am

Autotitles allow us to quickly navigate Mellel documents, but setting up a lot of autotitles quickly becomes tedious. Is there a way to automate the process?

Mellel is not scriptable, but could an applescript be set up using System Events to quickly get to the correct menu, then to the sub-menu item? We could use Control-F2 to get to the menu bar but that still leaves us wasting a lot of time, punching arrow keys to get to the Insert menu then, finally, down to the autotitle sub-menu.

Since autotitles are a heavily used and important part of Mellel, why haven’t keyboard shortcuts been included in order to make the addition of autotitles as fast and painless as possible?
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby frvs » Mon Jan 11, 2016 10:30 am

Hi,

Have you tried using the Auto-title palette? From the palette, it's simply a matter of double clicking auto-titles on a list in order to insert them.

Francisco
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby miles11 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 1:04 am

Hello Francisco,

Yes, I use both the menu bar and the Autotitle Palette. But I use many autotitles in nearly every Mellel document I create, and having to mouse around for every one of them is SO slow and monotonous. It would be a time saver to be able to quickly create needed autotitles without having to take a hand off the keyboard for every one of them.

I’ve written AppleScripts to speed up many repetitive tasks in my other programs, so it may be that the slowness of creating autotitles is a bit more noticeable to me than it is to some other users. I’ve used Mellel since 2003, so I get around in it pretty well, but this is a frequent irritation.
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby frvs » Fri Jan 15, 2016 7:28 am

miles11 wrote:Hello Francisco,
I’ve written AppleScripts to speed up many repetitive tasks in my other programs, so it may be that the slowness of creating autotitles is a bit more noticeable to me than it is to some other users. I’ve used Mellel since 2003, so I get around in it pretty well, but this is a frequent irritation.


I see. Being what you might call a sloth writer myself, the palette works fine for me. But, as you said, a simple expedient like auto-title shortcuts would make the difference for speed users. Let's hope the time it takes for the developers to eventually introduce this simple enhancement matches your writing pace rather than mine :P

Francisco
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby miles11 » Fri Jan 15, 2016 11:40 pm

miles11 wrote:But, as you said, a simple expedient like auto-title shortcuts would make the difference for speed users. Let's hope the time it takes for the developers to eventually introduce this simple enhancement matches your writing pace rather than mine


Never said I'm a fast writer.

I also use Mellel for a lot of things that may, or may not, be directly related to the writing I do: gathering loads of information about a wide range of topics, for instance. I also use it for notes, ToDos, etc. I've always used Mellel far more than any of the other word processors I have on my computer, and any time I have something new to learn about, new Mellel files are sure to be created for study or reference.
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby farcas » Thu Apr 14, 2016 5:17 pm

Agreed. Some way to automate the creation of autotitles would be nice - maybe through a find and replace...?


In the mean time, I have renamed my autotitles Level 1, Level 2, etc. Then under my Mac's keyboard shortcuts, created my own shortcuts CMD + SHFT + OPT + 1, CMD + SHFT + OPT + 2, etc. Works wonders.

But... I'd still like to see a find and replace creation of autotitles. Please make this happen!


Thanks!
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby miles11 » Sun Apr 24, 2016 11:06 pm

farcas wrote:In the mean time, I have renamed my autotitles Level 1, Level 2, etc. Then under my Mac's keyboard shortcuts, created my own shortcuts CMD + SHFT + OPT + 1, CMD + SHFT + OPT + 2, etc. Works wonders.


I finally spent some time using System Prefs to set up some shortcuts, too. Had to rework a few things but finally came up with a set I can use. This is much better than what I was doing before. Thanks for the reminder.
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby farcas » Mon Apr 25, 2016 5:57 pm

miles11 wrote:
farcas wrote:In the mean time, I have renamed my autotitles Level 1, Level 2, etc. Then under my Mac's keyboard shortcuts, created my own shortcuts CMD + SHFT + OPT + 1, CMD + SHFT + OPT + 2, etc. Works wonders.


I finally spent some time using System Prefs to set up some shortcuts, too. Had to rework a few things but finally came up with a set I can use. This is much better than what I was doing before. Thanks for the reminder.



Most welcome. I'm addicted to shortcuts. In addition I use BetterTouchTool to create complex arrangements of short cuts. Really nice.

My interest in automating auto title creation is seeing something in the find and replace. But we'll have to wait...


Thanks!
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby Icelander » Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:08 am

Hello miles11

Mellel is not scriptable, but could an applescript be set up using System Events to quickly get to the correct menu

I just tried

Code: Select all
tell application "System Events"
   tell process "Mellel"
      click menu item "Copy" of menu "Edit" of menu bar 1
      delay 0.5
   end tell
end tell


This usually works if the application is scriptable, but alas, it doesn't work in Mellel.

I tried Keyboard Maestro (KM) which I haven't used for ages, but to no avail. That doesn't mean that KM can't do it though. I have forgotten most of the commands and how it works in detail; someone who uses KM regularly could make a test. What about Automator? I haven't tried that yet.

Before I read this thread, I had already assigned the Auto-titles shortcuts via the System Preferences: Command + 1 for Level 1, Command + 2 for Level 2, etc. This is the fastest way I could find, faster than using the Auto-Title palette.

I've always used Mellel far more than any of the other word processors I have on my computer

Why? If you have already explained that in another thread, please guide me to that thread. I would like to read more about your experience, especially regarding Nisus.

I have a large amount of long documents I haven't written myself, mostly found on the Web. Nisus can often (re)format those documents in just a few seconds. Nisus is also highly customizable, and I can't live without the macros. :lol:
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby miles11 » Mon Aug 14, 2017 10:03 pm

Post deleted. I should not have responded to that forum member.

miles
Last edited by miles11 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby Icelander » Tue Aug 15, 2017 7:55 am

Did I mention that it's flat-out fun to use?

Yes, I agree, but it is unintuitive and idiosyncratic.

Mellel is solid a rock. I don't remember if I've ever had a crash while using this program.

By me, Mellel has crashed several times when I try to search for Headings in bold, for example. I know it crashes because I'm doing something wrong.
I think you might be able to reproduce the crash. Here is how to do it:

1. Create a character style called "Bold"
2. Create a paragraph style called "Bold paragraph", based on the previous character style called "Bold"
3. Take some unformatted text
4. Make a few words and phrases stand out as Headings
5. Assign the headings the paragraph style "Bold paragraph"
6. Enter "Any Paragraph" and "Any Character" into the Find box.
7. Select the "Any Character" symbol and assign it the property 'bold' from the Character Style or Paragraph Style menu
8. Press the Find button 'Next'
9. Mellel will crash!

I also tried this:
1. Select a heading
2. Assign it the face "bold" from the Attributes pane
3. Enter "Any Paragraph" into the Find box
4. Select the icon and assign it the face "bold" from the Attributes pane. The 'A' with small 'x' changes to indicate that the search is now attributive sensitive
5. Press the Find button 'Next' and …
6. Mellel will crash!

How should I go about it if I want to search for bold paragraphs?
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby Icelander » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:25 am

Hello miles11,

Your arguments as to why you use Mellel are not convincing.
Styles allow you to create Style Sets to fill many different needs, and save them for reuse as needed.

Nisus has also styles and allows you to search for them very easily, something I haven't been able to do yet in Mellel.
Templates are a snap to set up.

Templates are also easily set up in Nisus.
Mellel is solid a rock

Nisus is also rock solid.

I use mellel for writing short pieces, and long works.

Nisus can also be used to write short pieces and long works. :lol:

Autotitles make it simple to organize and categorize information in any way that suits the way you work.

Maybe I don't understand the Auto-title concept yet correctly, but I think you have exactly the same feature in Nisus too. It just goes by another name.
I haven't been able to detect anything I can do with Auto-titles that I can NOT do in Nisus.

Using Mellel, I've never suffered the many daily frustrations that were common when I tortured myself using M$ Word.

This statement is not very helpful because it lacks concrete details. You leave open what it was that was tormenting you.

I used Nisus years ago and it just wasn't for me. I didn't care for it.

Nisus Writer Pro was first released 2007. Maybe you were using Nisus Writer Express or perhaps the old Nisus Writer under system 9, which was a completely different program?

There are many more reasons, but you get the idea...

No, I'm afraid I did not get the idea. :lol:

I have been doing a detailed comparison of Mellel and Nisus for some time, and in most areas Nisus Writer Pro is vastly superior. I have only found 10 features that are better in Mellel.
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby Icelander » Tue Aug 15, 2017 9:39 am

miles11 wrote:Wish we could post images, I've created what I believe is a beautiful Mellel Default document.

Yes, not being able to post images here is infuriating. That's why I said earlier that the first priority for the developers should be to fix the forum, or still better, get a different forum software altogether.

I guess that's one more point for Nisus. The Nisus forum allows images. :lol:
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby miles11 » Tue Aug 15, 2017 6:09 pm

Post deleted. miles.
Last edited by miles11 on Wed Aug 16, 2017 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any way to automate autotitle creation?

Postby Icelander » Wed Aug 16, 2017 3:28 am

miles11 wrote:Then you come back with long-assed posts in which you act lika an argumentative asshole.

If you are unable to carry on a rational discussion and put together logical arguments based on reason, then that's OK with me. No need to resort to an ad hominem response and foul language.
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